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Post by raigus on Apr 2, 2008 19:59:56 GMT -5
I have never tried to hide my feelings on the path I have chosen. I have firmly advocated the TRUE way of the Sith! Read any of my posts and you will see that I am not one of these bumbling fools who DARE to call themselves Sith. I embrace the dark side and all that it brings. If that means I have to commit so called atrosities then by all means I will. As I have said Darth Bane is who I have based my philosophy off and I follow the path he laid down for future Sith. I am Raigus and I am a true Sith neophyte. I agree with you Kyoki that some here do not deserve the titles they carry! Pick a side and stay with it or make a new area for Gray Jedi because that is how most of the people here talk, like Gray Jedi. Those who are Jedi follow your flaud teachings if you wish. You who dare call yourselves Sith embrace the dark power that is the dark side or burn your black robes and start practicing the Jedi code! There is NO place for a true Sith to walk both paths. A Sith may study both he can only truly embrace the truth that is the power of the dark side or you will soon be left behind and then you can follow the weak Jedi philosophy! As I said to reignus "Return when you are ready to embrace the dark side rather than turning away from it!"
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Khaos
Force User
Posts: 26
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Post by Khaos on Apr 2, 2008 20:46:12 GMT -5
Spoken like a true zealot,I must admit im not as enthusiastic, as you seem to be. But I do believe in a light and dark side, I think thats how its supposed to be, this does not mean a jedi wont do bad things and a sith wont do good. Nobodies perfect or pure in there darkness or light, but theres always a choice one makes in there heart of hearts. There are times on everyones life when we make choices, from as extreme of taking a life to as minimal as stealing a pack of gum. The choice is simple, right? Or wrong.
You can play all the semantic games in the world, but the fact of life is we, people, for the most part have a pretty good idea of what is right and wrong, good or evil, just dont try to gray the area with a certain point of view
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Post by darthreignus on Apr 5, 2008 14:57:49 GMT -5
The reason I claim the title of Sith is because I am on a quest for personal power and perfection-- I want it all. The reason I'm not evil is because that is the antithisis of everything I want. Being evil makes you smaller, it makes your influence waver and it makes people not trust you. You are foolish to believe otherwise. But go ahead, embrace the darkness, it will leave you empty, bitter, frustrated and confused and the only thing you'll have to look forward to every day is more and more darkness, more frustration and in the end you'll be a broken person. Righteousness leads to mightyness.
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Khaos
Force User
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Post by Khaos on Apr 7, 2008 12:08:42 GMT -5
Lol, the Jedi quest for personal power and perfection as well. Despite whatever title you claim once you start down the path of self awareness and self realization you begin a quest for power and perfection.
And Righteousness leads to mightyness? Are you kidding? You can be righteous about the darkness, and even be happy with it. The only thing that will leave you bitter,confused, and broken is not knowing where and who you are in this world. Your views on the darkness prove exactly what im talking about. Your rant is in exact opposite to everything one represents the moment they take the title Sith.
What I think, is that people think the Sith are fashionable, they like all the trappings that come with the Sith. The look, the Darth title,the mystique. Its cool, a persona you get to put on and dance around in.
One can also embrace the darkness without being completely evil. I do not equate darkness with evil and goodness with light, I see good and evil in actions, not affiliaitons. It just happens to work out in that way most of the time.
Lets be truly and brutally realistic here. Youve taken a title from a fictional sect, one that is equated with evil. Then these people that take this particular title try to defend it, or change its meaning, saying its not evil... Im sorry, not going to happen, you also use the names from the fiction, light side, dark side, and the force. Well...if you, like most I read about dont believe in a light or dark side....then why bother with the phrases at all. Even the force is from a fiction.
Youve taken the meanings away from the phrases and titles. If thats the case then get rid of names and titles like Jedi and Sith, they dont mean anything right? There is no dark or light side so get rid of those to. Dont call it the force, just call it energy.
If nobody truly believes in light and darkness, or good and evil, or Sith or Jedi then whats the point....I do not claim Sith or Jedi...I believe there is an energy field that permeates everything...and my real names Bob ( Its not but you get the point) Well that takes all the romatisim out of it doesnt it.
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Post by darthreignus on Apr 7, 2008 12:41:19 GMT -5
Finally, you've said something that makes sense. Being a Sith is cooler than being a Jedi, the mystique is better. But it's philosophy of what a person can become is more complete than that of being a jedi. That's why I would choose it. But for the same reasons you just named I would be embarrased if people who really knew me knew I had a sith title as well. It is all fiction. But this site is designed to add an element of realism to something that everyone that would be interested in it would already know and love. If you read everything I've written, I don't talk about the force because it isn't real, and although there may be energies that bind the world together, they are either completely misunderstood or not as powerful as other sources that the world has yet to discover.
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Khaos
Force User
Posts: 26
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Post by Khaos on Apr 7, 2008 15:21:38 GMT -5
I understand completely, I actually have no problem with people using titles such as sith and jedi, or believing in the force. I am on this site as well am I not? The realism isnt the problem, nor is it the titles, I think the people do not realize the responibility in a title, any title.
Were I to say I was amish, and then turn on a TV and drink a beer while lighting a joint well....I wouldnt be Amish would I. But I could argue my point of view, saying that this is what an Amish is, right?
No, in claiming any title one inherits the responsibilities and assumptions of that title,theres no getting away from it. You wouldnt admit you have a Sith title to people who really knew you....So we will never really know you, so we would never know what you really believe,or be able to take you seriously.
I am not ashamed of anything I believe, in private or public, how else could I be expected to be taken seriously.
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Post by Empress Palpatine on Apr 12, 2008 23:09:35 GMT -5
Hello all, it has been a long time since I have posted anything on either Sith or Jedi sites. I needed some time away. I have seen the message board world cycle around a few times. New growth is needed as well as new inspiration. The good vs. evil discussion has gone through many cycles.
"Good and evil is a point of view....": Palpatine
Some of the worst atrocities were done in the name of "good." Hitler actually believed that exterminating a whole race was good. On the other hand, Mao Tse Tung was said to have killed many; and yet one could say, he just killed certain members of a ruling class to raise the poor of his country. Many call him "evil." Bin Laden thought that the terrorists were good when they slammed planes into the Trade Towers; and America is decadent and evil. (These examples are not about taking sides...just to make a point.)
I think what has happened on some sites is that Sith have become a bit wishy-washy. Wishy-washy is neither good nor evil. Whatever one thinks of Sith in the Star Wars films, they are never wishy-washy or conformist to the whims of any particular society. They are very passionate strong-minded people. Some saw themselves as evil and were proud of it. Others saw themselves as coldly practical (Palpatine).
I think every Sith has to determine what he/she wants most and find the quickest path to get there, whatever that path involves.
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Khaos
Force User
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Post by Khaos on Apr 14, 2008 12:31:40 GMT -5
The question wasnt really about good vs evil, it was whats wrong with being evil. Im not about to argue the points of views about good and evil for thats exactly what they are. The people you mentioned whether they thought they were good or evil, clearly chose a side. Everyone wants to be understood, everyone seems to want to be accepted.
Hitler, whether he thought he was evil, or simply practical, he didnt feel he needed to explain himself and be accepted by all. Nor did Bin Laden, They are who they are, they are what they are, and they make no excuses. (I also do not agree that these things were right, just using them as examples).
If someon called Palpatine evil, im sure he would lose no sleep over it,and would probably not wate time explaining his point of view...Perhaps you used the right term with wishy washy...I hate the seeming indesicive directions people try to take.
" Choose and act"-Vergere
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Post by darthreignus on Apr 19, 2008 2:31:39 GMT -5
Perhaps I would say that what is wrong with being evil is simply that it is a power that cannot last, whilst being good is a power that endures the tests of time, inspires minds to do great things and builds other's trust in you.
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Post by setiishadim on Apr 24, 2008 7:48:49 GMT -5
This is interesting. Perhaps you could elaborate on why you think this is the case?
-Syvak
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Post by darthreignus on Apr 24, 2008 23:29:23 GMT -5
Jesus Christ Joseph Smith George Washington Joan of Arc
Compare their leadership style to Adolf Hitler Kishkumen Stalin Saddam Hussein Cain
Everyone that has chosen to make a stand for what was right (even if they were martyred in the end) left and enduring legacy, the decendants of those who killed them even in many cases have built monuments to their honor and their influence and style is still studied and admired today.
Those who were evil inspire people to attack school children. Their message was one of hate, and they reaped what they sowed. Even and especially today. What frightens me is the old adage: Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it. I wonder if we remember how those who were evil came into power? We can see the same thing happening with some world leaders today, but it's politically incorrect to say that they're evil. That political correctness short circuits a good person's power to root out the evil influence before it strikes again, and it makes an admiration for those who were truly good to be spit upon.
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Post by setiishadim on Apr 25, 2008 0:09:39 GMT -5
Jesus Christ Joseph Smith George Washington Joan of Arc Compare their leadership style to Adolf Hitler Kishkumen Stalin Saddam Hussein Cain Everyone that has chosen to make a stand for what was right (even if they were martyred in the end) left and enduring legacy, the decendants of those who killed them even in many cases have built monuments to their honor and their influence and style is still studied and admired today. Thank you for clarification. I understand your general principle but I question your conclusions. Jesus' legacy has been one of a great deal of bloodshed. (Crusades, Inquisition, scientific repression, murder of G. Nolani Bruno, etc.) Joseph Smith's legacy is the same, especially concerning Brigham Young (The Avenging Angel of God). Also, recent events concerning polygamy. I'm not sure what legacy you can realistically claim for Washington & Joan of Arc. I'm curious how you would interpret Vlad Ţepeş? He saved his country from the Turk expansionism into Wallachia, he was evil by any definition of the term, he impaled people on sharpened poles, he is venerated in his homeland, is a Goth sub-culture god, and was probably the basis for Bram Stoker's Dracula novel. Thoughts? -Syvak
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Post by darthreignus on Apr 25, 2008 0:30:49 GMT -5
I heard a wise man once say that the problem with Christianity is that after 2000 years no one has decided to live it. I can see your point, but I don't think you quite saw mine. I cited those leaders because I've studied what they did, how they operated and what they believed in. As you well cited, others came later and perverted a lot of things that they taught, especially as we can see now in Texas with the polygamist cult. Is that Joseph Smith's legacy? Or is his legacy the fastest growing church in the world with a humanitarian effort second to none with expertise on geneology and education? Is Christ's legacy the crusades, or is it when when someone reaches out to clothe the naked, to visit the sick and afflicted and administer the healing hand to those in need because of the example of their Master? Washington's legacy is being the founding father of a great nation that if it still adhered to the principles that he and his compatriots espoused would still be the greatest in the world. Joan of Arc (though many may argue that she was schitsophrenic) was a simple girl who put her faith in God, thought for herself, didn't follow the stupid rules of war that the ruling class had placed and lead the French to victory. As we all know, France has had a problem with being led to victory.
As to Vlad Tepes: I actually just finished reading Stoker's Dracula. Such a claim were I to hear it I would probably think was false, but being here in Ukraine has inspired me to start again reading classics, and it was one of the first on the shelf that I thought I would enjoy, it not being rediculous. It is possible for the evil to lead people, even to victory. But all that they inspire are anti-heroes, men and women who are devilish and whose touch is poison. It was actually frustrated with the book at some points because it seemed that no matter what precautions Dr. Van Helsing took to protect Lucy he was thwarted. In the end, however, the band of Manly Men were able to hunt down the monster and amidts the gypsies they finally turned him into dust. I say Manly Men because each of them fit nicely into the archetype of 'Man' but in so doing also exhibit the personality qualities that I'm trying to help others understand.
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Khaos
Force User
Posts: 26
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Post by Khaos on Apr 25, 2008 11:14:22 GMT -5
You mention Jesus, and Joan or arc, and George Washington. You say there legacy of good has endured the test of time. Yet the others you mentioned, Hitler,Stalin,Saddam Hussein, And Cain. There legacy of evil has also carried onto this day. Any child will hear about them and there atrocities in any school across the U.S.A.
Thats not to mention the lesser evils. Jim Jones,David Koresh,Charles Manson,Timothy McCvey, etc. Theres not many who dont know these people, or Jack the Ripper,the Zodiac, they even got there own movies... I think your conclusion is a bit bias and one sided.
Evil and its legacy has also stood the test of time, some people admire and revere the above mentioned. Use there philosophies in there life, and sometimes unfortunately try to apply it. We are doomed to repeat history, despite the knowledge we have of the past.We are given more then enough infomation of the past and yet it hasnt stopped war, murder, hate, or violence. So as far as enduring the tests of time I would say there are on equal footing...
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Post by setiishadim on Apr 25, 2008 12:28:54 GMT -5
I agree with Kyoki here.
I, additionally, have a very hard time classifying Jesus & Joseph Smith as "good." I'm sorry if that offends some, but I believe leaders are morally responsible for the actions of their followers. Both religions have quite a deal of innocent blood on their hands.
-Syvak
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sciwiz12
Sith
A fool will lead you astray and all of mankind are fools.
Posts: 182
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Post by sciwiz12 on May 11, 2008 9:46:54 GMT -5
There is no problem with the title of evil but it doesn't necessarily corrolate to the sith, emotions guide the sith or you could say passion. Not the same as evil just as darkness is not inherantly evil. Evil is a label slapped on us by the forces of light because they cannot set their minds free of the trap of believing that one can be dark without being evil and one cannot be of the light without being good. You can be evil all day ong and not be sith and vise versa. Streangth and power are not the same as being evil either but they are the ways of the sith.
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Post by saevio on Jun 1, 2008 11:43:45 GMT -5
I dont believe that anything is wrong with being evil or being considered evil since everything in the world has to have an opposite of some sort, there is the light (good) and there is the dark (evil) and we choose the dark, you dont have to admit it to others, just yourself, and a sith shouldn’t be ruled by the opinion of others. Evil is a choice and everyone has light and dark in them, it’s a matter of which path you take, although one can be drawn toward one path more than the other. I think people are afraid of being evil and being considered evil due to the risk of being shunned and branded an outcast since society has brought us up to believe that evil is rare and that evil people don’t deserve to live but that’s contradicted by the fact that evil has left as much of a legacy as good, such as here in aus, we practically brag about our criminal history (Ned Kelly, “underbelly”) and the players of the “Melbourne Gangland War” are considered celebrities now. It just shows how hypocritical most people are, they admire what they claim to hate
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Post by saevio on Jun 10, 2008 11:16:08 GMT -5
my opinions on this topic have changed, i dont believe that there is anything wrong with being considered evil but i dont think that the sith are completely evil, being a sith mainly means freedom and individuality, self betterment and achieving power, we may have to be brutal and ruthless when necessary and we arent restricted by morals or ethics but that doesnt mean we are evil i believe true evil to be in the hearts of the sadists and psychos who hurt people just for the fun of it (some sith may be like this but not all).
"There is a common misconception that the Sith access the Force through evil or that being a Sith Lord automatically means that you are evil. This is not true. Any extreme emotion can access the Force. The essence of the Sith's power is in passion, not evil. Passion can take the form of joy or love as well as anger or hatred. Sith are typically evil in that they are often blinded by their passion or corrupted by the power granted to them by the Force." - howstuffworks.com: the sith explained
"evil is a word used by the ignorant and the weak, the dark side is about survival, its about unleashing your inner power, it glorifies the strength of the individual" - Darth Zannah (Darth Bane, Rule of Two)
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Post by Darth Draconis on Jul 4, 2010 5:59:19 GMT -5
Bump...
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Post by Konkor on Jul 4, 2010 9:03:01 GMT -5
If you do not believe in a Creator then I will prove to you the existence of One,but first I would like to bring in to recognition the difference between a personal conscious Deity compared to an impersonal conscious less force: A significant debate within the pantheistic community is about the use of the word "God." Pantheists do not believe in a God in the common and traditional sense of a personal creator being. Some modern Pantheists avoid using God-words altogether, since they regard them as misleading. Others feel that the word God is essential to express the strength of their feelings towards Nature and the Universe. Pantheism is little more than a redefinition of the word "God" to mean "Nature," "Universe", or "reality". In Pantheism the word God, when used, is more an expression of the user's feelings rather than of some supernatural power in the Universe. When pantheism is considered as an alternative to theism there is a denial of theistic claims. For example, theism is the belief in a "personal" God that transcends (is separate from) the world. Pantheists deny the existence of a personal God. They deny the existence of a "minded" Being that has intentional states and associated capacities like the ability to make decisions. Source:http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantheism?wasRedirected=true#cite_note-SEP-16 Traditional theism takes the view that God and the world are different. Pantheism, on the other hand would say God and the world are one and the same, that God IS an active part of the world. As a religious view, it could be very harmful. If God is an active part of the world, as claimed by pantheism, then he is a very vengeful god who takes joy in causing misfortune. Ontologically, it would make it impossible to identify and affirm God's saving presence. Additionally, it would negate the in-finiteness of God. the world being a finite place, and God being infinite. At least, that's two flaws I can identify. Though pantheists do go to great length to differentiate the essence of God being different than God. It lacks cohesion at that point, for me. You cannot claim on the one hand that God is in the world and the world is in God, and then claim that you are speaking of the essence of God. Now that I have a definition of what it really means to be a God(to be conscious),I would like to put forth the logical evidence of the existence of an all powerfully,conscious,transcendent Creator and Sustainer. www.carm.org/discussion-logical-absolutes-proof-gods-existencewww.proofthatgodexists.org/main.phpwww.calvindude.com/index.php?id=51www.calvindude.com/index.php?id=52What ever I say,even though there is Proof for it,you do not accept. I have accepted that I cannot prove my Christian God,but instead have found proof for an all powerful,conscious,transcendent Creator and Sustainer. If you do not believe the FACTS than it is a Fact that you are with out help. There is an all powerful conscious Creator. There is proof that there is one. Only in Monotheism is their a Deity which matches the requirements. Which ever religion has the true view of the all powerful,conscious,transcendent Creator and Sustainer is left to find out,but they all have similar qualities,one of which is the wrath exacted by the Creator on those which do not worship and follow the laws given by the Creator. I worship a sole Creator,the Christian God,and Him alone. You do not worship the Creator in any way shape or form and I am sure that "He" is ready to exact judgment on you and your life,whether it be after you die,in some place of punishment,such as the Christian Hell,or during your life now,after all everything is possible for the one who created everything and the concept of everything. Take a look at this site to see what the Bible says about religions like new age- jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/false_religions.htm#mormonAlso,look what the Bible(Deuteronomy18:10-13) says about many things practiced by new agers- www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?passage=Deuteronomy+18%3A10-13All should Fear the Lord. Fear of the Lord is the beginning of Wisdom. The Book of Proverbs is dedicated to Wisdom: www.letgodbetrue.com/proverbs/index.htm
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