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Post by Konkor on Jun 22, 2010 17:23:07 GMT -5
"Wow now i really regret debating with you. Its freakin hilarious.....Logic thats pretty darn clever as oppose to common knowledge." Common knowledge would not be knowledge if it wasn't for logic.
"You are one great follower i'll give you that but logic is the basic type of evidence when it needs concrete evidence." Without logic nothing is concrete.
"The bible is a great book but not everything in it is true because there are stories that define the laws of logic and not prove much that god exists only that he spoke to them which means the person who heard him is either crazy or dilusional when in those times it was difficult who you're suppose to believe especially when it came down to the greeks, jews, egyptians, romans, muslims and islamaics. Also its a discussion not a debate or concrete that god is a real person as oppose to an imaginary being people praise and worship." Not in once in the above evidence I put forth was there anything based on the bible. Everything is based on the laws of logic and the need for a !Concious! Transendent Uncreated Creator Being!
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Post by Konkor on Jun 23, 2010 14:47:59 GMT -5
Just so you know Konkor....the term Occult translates into "Hidden Truth". There are things in the world that your bible does not tell you, there are things that happen that the bible does not try to understand but intead deems it "heretical". I'll live my life the way I want according to traditions set forth thousands of years before that book was written. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/OccultYes,that is the root of the word and also one of a couple of it's definitions,but not the one I was using. I want you to know that when you said you would live your life the way you want according to the traditions set forth thousands of years before the book was written,some of the traditions are in the bible!Thousands of years before the old teastament was written,there were people who practiced the ways yet had no form of writing.Abraham is the patriarch of three different monothiestic religions,Judaism,Christianity,and Islam. The Torah was not in existance than,and Christianity came into existance hundreds of years after the Torah was established,and the Koran was composed a few hundreds of years after the appearence Christianity.
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Post by reaver on Jun 27, 2010 1:05:29 GMT -5
Just so you know Konkor....the term Occult translates into "Hidden Truth". There are things in the world that your bible does not tell you, there are things that happen that the bible does not try to understand but intead deems it "heretical". I'll live my life the way I want according to traditions set forth thousands of years before that book was written. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/OccultYes,that is the root of the word and also one of a couple of it's definitions,but not the one I was using. I want you to know that when you said you would live your life the way you want according to the traditions set forth thousands of years before the book was written,some of the traditions are in the bible!Thousands of years before the old teastament was written,there were people who practiced the ways yet had no form of writing.Abraham is the patriarch of three different monothiestic religions,Judaism,Christianity,and Islam. The Torah was not in existance than,and Christianity came into existance hundreds of years after the Torah was established,and the Koran was composed a few hundreds of years after the appearence Christianity. Konkor, there world is a BIG place and there were other humans scratching a living from the very land. Before you say "those traditions are in the Bible", how about you take into account all of the other humans living in the world besides those mentioned in the Bible. There were humans living in what is modern day Europe, America, etc. The "root" of civilization or the start of Humanity did not happen in the Middle East. I do not have an answer for our origins, because I feel there are some questions better left unanswered. I don't care that you want to try and preach the "word" with us, but take into consideration that those of us on here CHOSE to take a different perspective on life. Again, I will live my life based on the principles set for by the traditions of different people thousands of years before that book was written. I suggest you take your "word" elsewhere because I'm pretty sure that they will fall on deaf ears here. The day you accept the fact that no one will be like you or willing to listen to you is the day you become stronger and recognize that there is more to life than what is written in a book.
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Post by Konkor on Jun 27, 2010 11:55:55 GMT -5
"The day you accept the fact that no one will be like you or willing to listen to you is the day you become stronger and recognize that there is more to life than what is written in a book."
You are right. There is more to life than what is written in a book!
Best to clue you in now,that the bible is not just a book ,but the word of God.Ha Ha Ha I have been putting evidence up to prove the existance of God,and you just shove it aside as if I never posted it!I have taken in consideration your ideas of the non-existance of God,and I have disproven all that is based on logic by using logic!
Never the less,may the lord bring you to himself.The day you accept the fact that there is an all powerful concious God and that we as humans have fallen short of the right to eternal life and paradise by sin and have the faith that God,because he is capable of anything,became human and suffered and died,though he is without sin and suffering and death was the punishment to the sinful man,he acted as an unblemished lamb who accepted the sins of all,as was the ceremony of sacrafice which moses set up under God's command,is the day you gain eternal life in the paradise of the Garden and recognize the truth.
You do not give me logical disprovals of what I had put up but instead state that it is not what you beleive,but you state what you believe without any logical explenation. There is logical proof that there is a allpowerful concious Creator,which I beleive to be the God of the Bible(Old Testament and New Testament),though it also could be a allpowerful concious Creator of different religions. All I am proving is that there is an allpowerful allperfect concious trancendent Creator!!!
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Post by reaver on Jun 27, 2010 15:57:15 GMT -5
"The day you accept the fact that no one will be like you or willing to listen to you is the day you become stronger and recognize that there is more to life than what is written in a book." You are right. There is more to life than what is written in a book! Best to clue you in now,that the bible is not just a book ,but the word of God.Ha Ha Ha I have been putting evidence up to prove the existance of God,and you just shove it aside as if I never posted it!I have taken in consideration your ideas of the non-existance of God,and I have disproven all that is based on logic by using logic! Never the less,may the lord bring you to himself.The day you accept the fact that there is an all powerful concious God and that we as humans have fallen short of the right to eternal life and paradise by sin and have the faith that God,because he is capable of anything,became human and suffered and died,though he is without sin and suffering and death was the punishment to the sinful man,he acted as an unblemished lamb who accepted the sins of all,as was the ceremony of sacrafice which moses set up under God's command,is the day you gain eternal life in the paradise of the Garden and recognize the truth. You do not give me logical disprovals of what I had put up but instead state that it is not what you beleive,but you state what you believe without any logical explenation. There is logical proof that there is a allpowerful concious Creator,which I beleive to be the God of the Bible(Old Testament and New Testament),though it also could be a allpowerful concious Creator of different religions. All I am proving is that there is an allpowerful allperfect concious trancendent Creator!!! All you are proving is the acceptance of your own beliefs and the nature of your soul to press an unwelcome lifestyle onto others. Usually when someone states their own beliefs in lieu of yours, it shows that they are unwilling to change themselves because they are content with their lifestyle. You say the Bible is not a book but the word of your god.....well if its written down on paper, and those papers are compiled into verses, groups, chapters, etc., then it would classify as a book. I dont honestly care that you choose to live your life, but recognize the fact that there are billions of different people in this world with different backgrounds. They live their lives, sometimes dealing with proselytizing individuals such as yourself. You dont take no for answer and I'm sure there are people on this site that use their common experieces to help others understand what is going on. Some people may only be chatting on this site for fun, others such as myself take a more serious approach and what to understand certain aspects of life. There is more than one way to live and I'd rather die with MY beliefs than listen to people such as yourself who have nothing better to do than conduct a "hunt" of Pagans (and I use the term in a general "Non-Believer way). I think I could speak with other's here that you should go and tout your sales pitch elsewhere, because I AM NOT CHANGING MY BELIEFS JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE TELLS ME TO. I'm only saying this once: PISS OFF.
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Post by Konkor on Jun 27, 2010 16:40:51 GMT -5
I did not deny that the bible is a book,but it is also(to me)the word of God. To you it is not. All I have been trying to do is to show you the proof(the truth for both you and me)that there is an all powerful,all wise transcendent Creator! Sadly for me,I can prove that there is an all powerful all wise conscious transcendent Creator and Sustainer but I cannot prove that the Creator is the Christian God. As the Creator may be the Christian God,it may also be the God of Judaism,the God of Islam,Allah,or any other religion's God which matches the description of being an all powerful,all wise,!conscious!,Creator. I did this !conscious! because I want to stress the fact of there being evidence of a being that is separate from his creation and is not !what! makes up it! I am sorry if before I was trying to force my Christian beliefs on you,because I admit I cannot prove them in their fullness,but I can prove the all powerful all wise conscious Creator.You may ignore where I force the Christian view upon you as I have no evidence to support it but I strongly recommend you take into consideration monotheistic views of an all powerful all wise conscious transcendent Creator and Sustainer,as there is much logical evidence to support it,whether it be the Christian God, Yhwh,the God of Judaism,Allah the God of Islam,or another view which is supported by the evidence(all powerful,all wise,conscious and selfconcious,transcendent,Creator.Of course each of the three consider the other three heretical. I will change my ending from praise the Lord to something else as to not offend you.
Praise the Creator of both you and me!
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Post by reaver on Jun 27, 2010 17:40:50 GMT -5
I did not deny that the bible is a book,but it is also(to me)the word of God. To you it is not. All I have been trying to do is to show you the proof(the truth for both you and me)that there is an all powerful,all wise transcendent Creator! Sadly for me,I can prove that there is an all powerful all wise conscious transcendent Creator and Sustainer but I cannot prove that the Creator is the Christian God. As the Creator may be the Christian God,it may also be the God of Judaism,the God of Islam,Allah,or any other religion's God which matches the description of being an all powerful,all wise,!conscious!,Creator. I did this !conscious! because I want to stress the fact of there being evidence of a being that is separate from his creation and is not !what! makes up it! I am sorry if before I was trying to force my Christian beliefs on you,because I admit I cannot prove them in their fullness,but I can prove the all powerful all wise conscious Creator.You may ignore where I force the Christian view upon you as I have no evidence to support it but I strongly recommend you take into consideration monotheistic views of an all powerful all wise conscious transcendent Creator and Sustainer,as there is much logical evidence to support it,whether it be the Christian God, Yhwh,the God of Judaism,Allah the God of Islam,or another view which is supported by the evidence(all powerful,all wise,conscious and selfconcious,transcendent,Creator.Of course each of the three consider the other three heretical. I will change my ending from praise the Lord to something else as to not offend you. Praise the Creator of both you and me! See Konkor, I dont care what you believe but it is not what I believe. Live your life by all means, but when you choose to "show someone the way" don't assume that they will listen. If at first someone says no or shows any sign of not being interested, then move on with your life and accept the fact that there are people in the world that CHOOSE to live their lives differently. I honestly dont care how we humans came into existence, all of that to me is unimportant as there are evils that corrupt the world we walk on. We can spend our time debating on religion/philosophy or we can look to REALITY and see that our planet is dying. I for one want to do as much as I can to prevent that from happening so future generations of humans can walk upon this planet and absorb its knowledge.
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Post by Konkor on Jun 27, 2010 18:21:33 GMT -5
You are the one who is constantly stating what you believe,I have stopped. I have realized that the only thing I am going to do here is to explain to people the proof of an all powerful,all wise,conscious,transcendent Creator and Sustainer,who may be the Christian God(which I believe in)or YHWH,the God of Judaism,or Allah,the God of Islam or any view which matches the evidence.Of course I do not Believe in any other God than the Christian God but I do not have any proof.There is only proof for an all powerful,all wise,conscious,transcendent Creator and Sustainer which may be the God of Judaism or the God of Islam both of which I do not believe in. Once again,you are the one sticking to your beliefs instead of proof.
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Post by reaver on Jun 27, 2010 18:38:19 GMT -5
You are the one who is constantly stating what you believe,I have stopped. I have realized that the only thing I am going to do here is to explain to people the proof of an all powerful,all wise,conscious,transcendent Creator and Sustainer,who may be the Christian God(which I believe in)or YHWH,the God of Judaism,or Allah,the God of Islam or any view which matches the evidence.Of course I do not Believe in any other God than the Christian God but I do not have any proof.There is only proof for an all powerful,all wise,conscious,transcendent Creator and Sustainer which may be the God of Judaism or the God of Islam both of which I do not believe in. Once again,you are the one sticking to your beliefs instead of proof. now your getting into a matter of opinion: Proof can mean lots of things in many different perspectives. You said yourself you cannot prove your beliefs...."Of course I do not Believe in any other God than the Christian God but I do not have any proof". I base my beliefs as I stated before, off the priciples and teachings of those cultures long past. My beliefs are my own proof. I cannot prove to you the existence of aliens anymore than you can prove to me the existence of your creator.
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Post by Konkor on Jun 27, 2010 19:32:15 GMT -5
I said that I cannot prove my belief in a Christian God,though there is much evidence for an all powerful,all wise,conscious,transcendent Creator and Sustainer which may be the Christian God,the God of Judeaism,the God of Islam or any God which follows the requirements. Though I could not prove my Christian God I can prove,using logic, that there is an all powerful,all wise,conscious,transcendent Creator and Sustainer,and denying would be illogical.
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Post by reaver on Jun 28, 2010 5:14:11 GMT -5
I said that I cannot prove my belief in a Christian God,though there is much evidence for an all powerful,all wise,conscious,transcendent Creator and Sustainer which may be the Christian God,the God of Judeaism,the God of Islam or any God which follows the requirements. Though I could not prove my Christian God I can prove,using logic, that there is an all powerful,all wise,conscious,transcendent Creator and Sustainer,and denying would be illogical. Logic doesn't dictate proof or belief. Logic is merely a state of mind, what some people would call being rational. Again I state that you cannot prove the existence of that "creator" anymore than I can prove to you the existence of aliens. I can tell just by debating with you that you seem pretty confused on pretty general ideas and thought processes. I suggest that you learn a little more about yourself, do some soul searching and discover your true self. The day you face your nightmares is the day that you can use them as an ally. Go beyond the mainstream, the easy path, challenge yourself into changing yourself for the better so you can survive in the future world.
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Post by Konkor on Jun 28, 2010 9:17:51 GMT -5
What are you saying that by,logic...you use logic to differentiate between the meanings of the words. Once again,I am not proving my Christian belief in a single God but I am proving that there is an all powerful,all wise,conscious,transcendent Creator and Sustainer which many religions follow,and not just Christianity or Judaism or Islam,but many others. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MonotheistsSome of these are beliefs which I do not follow but cannot prove wrong as there is only proof to prove an all powerful,all wise,conscious,transcendent Creator and Sustainer which means their has to be one. The day that you accept as truth that there is an all powerful,all wise,conscious,transcendent Creator and Sustainer is the day you become enlightened. This an all powerful,all wise,conscious,transcendent Creator and Sustainer may just be my Christian God I believe in,or not,at least there is a possibility,where as for you,because you do not believe in an all powerful,all wise,conscious,transcendent Creator and Sustainer,you are wrong to.
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Post by reaver on Jun 28, 2010 10:05:44 GMT -5
What are you saying that by,logic...you use logic to differentiate between the meanings of the words. Once again,I am not proving my Christian belief in a single God but I am proving that there is an all powerful,all wise,conscious,transcendent Creator and Sustainer which many religions follow,and not just Christianity or Judaism or Islam,but many others. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MonotheistsSome of these are beliefs which I do not follow but cannot prove wrong as there is only proof to prove an all powerful,all wise,conscious,transcendent Creator and Sustainer which means their has to be one. The day that you accept as truth that there is an all powerful,all wise,conscious,transcendent Creator and Sustainer is the day you become enlightened. This an all powerful,all wise,conscious,transcendent Creator and Sustainer may just be my Christian God I believe in,or not,at least there is a possibility,where as for you,because you do not believe in an all powerful,all wise,conscious,transcendent Creator and Sustainer,you are wrong to. When I used the term "creator" I wasnt referencing your creator....but that one creator that you so passionately carry on about. I will not become "enlightened" if I abandon my ideals, I am enlightened to other aspects of life, not just the narrow minded view your preaching. Do us all a favor....Get a f**k**g life, stop surfing the internet to proselytize non believers, and go your own f**k**g path.
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Post by Konkor on Jun 28, 2010 11:43:01 GMT -5
What are you saying that by,logic...you use logic to differentiate between the meanings of the words. Once again,I am not proving my Christian belief in a single God but I am proving that there is an all powerful,all wise,conscious,transcendent Creator and Sustainer which many religions follow,and not just Christianity or Judaism or Islam,but many others. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MonotheistsSome of these are beliefs which I do not follow but cannot prove wrong as there is only proof to prove an all powerful,all wise,conscious,transcendent Creator and Sustainer which means their has to be one. The day that you accept as truth that there is an all powerful,all wise,conscious,transcendent Creator and Sustainer is the day you become enlightened. This an all powerful,all wise,conscious,transcendent Creator and Sustainer may just be my Christian God I believe in,or not,at least there is a possibility,where as for you,because you do not believe in an all powerful,all wise,conscious,transcendent Creator and Sustainer,you are wrong to. When I used the term "creator" I wasnt referencing your creator....but that one creator that you so passionately carry on about. I will not become "enlightened" if I abandon my ideals, I am enlightened to other aspects of life, not just the narrow minded view your preaching. Do us all a favor....Get a f**k**g life, stop surfing the internet to proselytize non believers, and go your own f**k**g path. I am not trying to turn you into a "believer",because that,for me,would mean turning you into a Christian. What I am trying to do is to bring to your recognition the evidence that there is an all powerful,all wise,conscious,transcendent Creator and Sustainer,which may be my Christian God,or another Deity which follows the requirements. Because there is proof of an all powerful,all wise,conscious,transcendent Creator and Sustainer,than "believing" in one which has those requirements would not be illogical at all,but instead logical.While not "believing in any Deity which is an all powerful,all wise,conscious,transcendent Creator and Sustainer would,IN FACT,be illogical. Believing in a Christian God,or the God of Judaism or the God of Islam,is not at all illogical but very possible.Any religion following an all powerful,all wise,conscious,transcendent Creator and Sustainer has a 50% chance of being true because there is proof to support an all powerful,all wise,conscious,transcendent Creator and Sustainer(100%true because there is logical proof),while any religion without a deity with these requirements is 100%false.
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Post by Konkor on Jun 28, 2010 14:20:34 GMT -5
First I would like to bring in to recognition the difference between a personal conscious Deity compared to an impersonal conscious less force: A significant debate within the pantheistic community is about the use of the word "God." Pantheists do not believe in a God in the common and traditional sense of a personal creator being. Some modern Pantheists avoid using God-words altogether, since they regard them as misleading. Others feel that the word God is essential to express the strength of their feelings towards Nature and the Universe. Pantheism is little more than a redefinition of the word "God" to mean "Nature," "Universe", or "reality". In Pantheism the word God, when used, is more an expression of the user's feelings rather than of some supernatural power in the Universe. When pantheism is considered as an alternative to theism there is a denial of theistic claims. For example, theism is the belief in a "personal" God that transcends (is separate from) the world. Pantheists deny the existence of a personal God. They deny the existence of a "minded" Being that has intentional states and associated capacities like the ability to make decisions. Source:http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantheism?wasRedirected=true#cite_note-SEP-16 Traditional theism takes the view that God and the world are different. Pantheism, on the other hand would say God and the world are one and the same, that God IS an active part of the world. As a religious view, it could be very harmful. If God is an active part of the world, as claimed by pantheism, then he is a very vengeful god who takes joy in causing misfortune. Ontologically, it would make it impossible to identify and affirm God's saving presence. Additionally, it would negate the in-finiteness of God. the world being a finite place, and God being infinite. At least, that's two flaws I can identify. Though pantheists do go to great length to differentiate the essence of God being different than God. It lacks cohesion at that point, for me. You cannot claim on the one hand that God is in the world and the world is in God, and then claim that you are speaking of the essence of God. Now that I have a definition of what it really means to be a God(to be conscious),I would like to put forth the logical evidence of the existence of an all power full,conscious,transcendent Creator and Sustainer. www.carm.org/discussion-logical-absolutes-proof-gods-existencewww.proofthatgodexists.org/main.phpwww.calvindude.com/index.php?id=51www.calvindude.com/index.php?id=52
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Post by reaver on Jun 28, 2010 15:06:30 GMT -5
First I would like to bring in to recognition the difference between a personal conscious Deity compared to an impersonal conscious less force: A significant debate within the pantheistic community is about the use of the word "God." Pantheists do not believe in a God in the common and traditional sense of a personal creator being. Some modern Pantheists avoid using God-words altogether, since they regard them as misleading. Others feel that the word God is essential to express the strength of their feelings towards Nature and the Universe. Pantheism is little more than a redefinition of the word "God" to mean "Nature," "Universe", or "reality". In Pantheism the word God, when used, is more an expression of the user's feelings rather than of some supernatural power in the Universe. When pantheism is considered as an alternative to theism there is a denial of theistic claims. For example, theism is the belief in a "personal" God that transcends (is separate from) the world. Pantheists deny the existence of a personal God. They deny the existence of a "minded" Being that has intentional states and associated capacities like the ability to make decisions. Source:http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantheism?wasRedirected=true#cite_note-SEP-16 Traditional theism takes the view that God and the world are different. Pantheism, on the other hand would say God and the world are one and the same, that God IS an active part of the world. As a religious view, it could be very harmful. If God is an active part of the world, as claimed by pantheism, then he is a very vengeful god who takes joy in causing misfortune. Ontologically, it would make it impossible to identify and affirm God's saving presence. Additionally, it would negate the in-finiteness of God. the world being a finite place, and God being infinite. At least, that's two flaws I can identify. Though pantheists do go to great length to differentiate the essence of God being different than God. It lacks cohesion at that point, for me. You cannot claim on the one hand that God is in the world and the world is in God, and then claim that you are speaking of the essence of God. Now that I have a definition of what it really means to be a God(to be conscious),I would like to put forth the logical evidence of the existence of an all power full,conscious,transcendent Creator and Sustainer. www.carm.org/discussion-logical-absolutes-proof-gods-existencewww.proofthatgodexists.org/main.phpwww.calvindude.com/index.php?id=51www.calvindude.com/index.php?id=52I like the hypocrisy you spill out of your mouth hole: I reference your own little quote at the bottome of everything you post: "I am here to turn people away from false beliefs and teachings and to bring people to the light in Christ.I seek to Counqer souls by Christ,in the name of Christ for Christ. "Holy,Holy,Holy,Lord God Almighty,which was,and is,and is to come!" I think first off your a hypocritical fool who says that you are not wanting to turn anyone into a believe yet right there is a declaration. You dont want to turn people into your beliefs but you seek to conquer souls by christ, in the name of christ for christ.......you are one sad soul. In the end I know the only thing you will conquer is your own blindness, for in the end you will truely see the failure of your "logical evidence". I am through debating with one as worthless as you, this discussion is over and I for one will not endure anymore of your pathetic mewling.
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Post by Konkor on Jun 28, 2010 17:06:31 GMT -5
We are not having a discussion any more,you are battling without logic evidence.What ever I say,even though there is Proof for it,you do not accept. I have accepted that I cannot prove my Christian God,but instead have found proof for an all powerful,conscious,transcendent Creator and Sustainer. You are promising things with out evidence. I have given you evidence and I thought we could discuss and exchange evidence. If you do not believe the FACTS than it is a Fact that you are with out help. There is an all powerful conscious Creator. There is proof that there is one. Only in Monotheism is their a Deity which matches the requirements. Which ever religion has the true view of the all powerful,conscious,transcendent Creator and Sustainer is left to find out,but they all have similar qualities,one of which is the wrath exacted by the Creator on those which do not worship and follow the laws given by the Creator. I worship a sole Creator,the Christian God,and Him alone. You do not worship the Creator in any way shape or form and I am sure that "He" is ready to exact judgment on you and your life,whether it be after you die,in some place of punishment,such as the Christian Hell,or during your life now,after all everything is possible for the one who created everything and the concept of everything.
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sciwiz12
Sith
A fool will lead you astray and all of mankind are fools.
Posts: 182
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Post by sciwiz12 on Jun 28, 2010 17:08:14 GMT -5
Hahahahahahahahahahah, sorry, had to get that out of the way first, haven't been on in a while have I, definitely didn't notice a debate going on. Well well well, shouting it upon the hills and mountains I see. Well let's see what I can contribute to this battle of the intellects. So Konkor it seems like after trying to spout off your religious views you gave up on trying to convert people and now you just want to prove you're right about there being a god rather than caring whether or not we believe in your god anymore. I have to side with Reaver however who seems to be saying "go away we want to discuss our beliefs in peace without intrusion" and while I think it would've been a little more peaceful to just ignore you until you stopped posting, I love a good debate. Not to mention I've read quite a bit of the bible among other things and have simply chosen to reject it because it doesn't resound with my own personal beliefs acquired through personal experience. Ofcourse, I think a battle over whether or not there is a sentient god in this universe or a non-sentient force is more than trivial, mostly because none of us our god and none of us have proof that we've spoken to or met with god in anyway. I can be swayed to believe in a god but only on the grounds that the person proclaiming the god can show me the miracles of their god and it better be pretty darn miraculous or else it might as well be garbage, and no, the world around us doesn't count as proof of intelligent design. I like to say "nothing's impossible, but there's a lot that I find to be improbable" all based on my own personal experiences of course. It could be that there is some intelligence plotting and directing the course of nature, or that could just be the way the universe works, no rhyme or reason to it. In my mind however, there are only two reasons to bow down to or even acknowledge a being that may or may not exist, A. you seek a reward from that being that you think is somehow promised to you as a reward for your faith, or B. you're afraid of some horrid punishment that awaits non-believers. I find most often that the fanatics who profess their faith to everyone are usually of the second caliber despite opposing claims made by said "believers". There is a point however on which I believe a debate might prove both intriguing and fruitful, if we were to discuss some of the beliefs of Christianity, your own professed religious faith, then we might at least prove to you that we are in the right. Give me a little while to scan the pages of my bible to gather the appropriate quotations needed to present my case and if you wish when I am done you may provide counter quotations and or cross examine the original meaning behind whatever quotations I provide. This way if I can show to you that the bible allows for us to maintain the tenants of what, in my opinion, a force practitioner believes, you should have no room to complain.
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Post by Konkor on Jun 28, 2010 17:31:18 GMT -5
Fine by me.Glad to see someone with an open mind.
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sciwiz12
Sith
A fool will lead you astray and all of mankind are fools.
Posts: 182
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Post by sciwiz12 on Jun 28, 2010 18:01:44 GMT -5
Oh there were only two times in my life that I didn't have an open mind, when I was a very young christian zealot and shortly thereafter when my parents stopped taking me to church so that I'd stop overdoing it with religion and I became atheist, since then I've come to prefer sharing and collecting ideas, one thing before I get to the bible quote cuz I had to go back through and read all of the posts and collect the parts I wanted to touch on using the quotation. I did notice you say that you wanted to prove that there was a conscious creator and that you weren't necessarily arguing that we should believe in the Christian god, but that we should simply acknowledge that there is one singular divine presence, not exactly quoting here. Anyway just wanted to thank for clarifying as much, again that's not the part I'm going to debate when I get started, just wanted to thank you for saying it. Although on behalf of the rest of the forum I will say this: we find it mildly offensive that one would suggest that we will suffer for not believing in "the right thing" and while I know that your newfound beliefs dictate that you preach the word of god I might personally suggest you refrain from using firey lakes as leverage to convert those of other faiths. Besides, the Jews pretty much practiced magic themselves, kabbalah is an interesting read. Also just one more thing and then I'll get back to scanning my bible, I already have a few interesting quotes in mind but, do be careful what you label as magic, even if I've used the term magic, or energy, I've always kept in mind that those are just tools to create understanding of abstract feelings, sensations, and phenomena. Plus under some definitions prayers to god are considered magic, I guess that depends on what you consider to be a prayer but uh... well just be mindful of what you say whilst broaching touchy subjects like faith.
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