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Post by Mrs. Darth Vader on Feb 21, 2007 23:11:39 GMT -5
Lucas is suiting because money is made from the sale of the book. This does not mean that an individual christian can not use Jedi and christian ideals. An individual can believe anything and talk about anything. Lucas is concerned with money makeing of other people getting money from his works. So this explains the mass christian exodus from Star Wars and one other thing(person) not to mention.
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Post by trine on Feb 21, 2007 23:20:41 GMT -5
No, he is suing not for the book but for the ULC selling the jedi title.
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Post by Darth Necrom on Feb 23, 2007 17:26:10 GMT -5
Ah going back to the Christian church let me drop a quote (by Friedrich Nietzsche) that I have found to be most accurate
I have found,in what little life I have lived, that if we tell ourselves that there are horrible things going on, without ever doing anything, chances are the bad things will actually happen. I have very little patients for these "reborn christians'' who don't truly understand the atrocities that their religion has created (this not applying solely to christians, to be sure). I find that all Christians do is basically "pregnant dog", pardon my vulgar, and basically use their religion as a shield but yet they turn a blind eye to things beyond this "sheild". Enough of this, I realize that it was not exactly a "on topic" rant and I apologize. Sometimes I feel as if somethings must be said.
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Post by trine on Feb 24, 2007 1:05:10 GMT -5
The thing about Christains and indeed anyother religion with one god is that "god will make everything alright. god wont let us continue to suffer." then they sit there and wait for some miracle to happen. Well, sorry to pop that little bubble of perfection of yours but nothing is going to happen unless you do it yourself. Stop putting faith in someone else and do something to make things better. Sorry but I just needed to vent that because my family is very religious and has this mindset and if I say anything to them about it I'm suddenly a satanist.
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Post by setiishadim on Feb 24, 2007 8:14:50 GMT -5
Man, Satan has gotten such a bad rap. He leads one little rebellion & people are still giving him a hard time. Satan was framed. lol
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Post by Volund Starfire on Feb 24, 2007 11:50:51 GMT -5
The thing about Christains and indeed anyother religion with one god is that "god will make everything alright. god wont let us continue to suffer." then they sit there and wait for some miracle to happen. Well, sorry to pop that little bubble of perfection of yours but nothing is going to happen unless you do it yourself. Stop putting faith in someone else and do something to make things better. Sorry but I just needed to vent that because my family is very religious and has this mindset and if I say anything to them about it I'm suddenly a satanist. The Lord helps those who help themselves. Beliefs should not override the personal wisdom of each individual. Remember, God gave the Adam each beast of the field and each plant of the garden, yet people declare that eating meat is wrong and smoking certain plants are wrong. Remember, God said, "let your line learn all there is to know," but the Church put to death anyone who thought differently, whether they were right or wrong.
Do not confuse the Lord's power and wishes with those of Men. It is unfortunate, but Man is a very close-minded creature. Just in terms of the bible, they were given three chances to shape up (two is you are Jewish): The covenant with Abraham, the Covenant with Moses, and the Covenant with Jesus... My father used to say, I'll give you to the count of three before you get a whuppin... so what comes now?
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Post by Draco on Feb 24, 2007 13:44:53 GMT -5
In reality since your jesus orders the death of the unbelievers in luke, they where doing his work. Old jesus says in the bible ask and ye shall receive, not pray for life and maybe get thrown a bone. The christian religion is the biggest proof that christianity is a fraud created by men to keep other men inline for their own interests. The whole bible is a lie created from older non-christian texts, the whole religion is a fraud. The thing about Christains and indeed anyother religion with one god is that "god will make everything alright. god wont let us continue to suffer." then they sit there and wait for some miracle to happen. Well, sorry to pop that little bubble of perfection of yours but nothing is going to happen unless you do it yourself. Stop putting faith in someone else and do something to make things better. Sorry but I just needed to vent that because my family is very religious and has this mindset and if I say anything to them about it I'm suddenly a satanist. The Lord helps those who help themselves. Beliefs should not override the personal wisdom of each individual. Remember, God gave the Adam each beast of the field and each plant of the garden, yet people declare that eating meat is wrong and smoking certain plants are wrong. Remember, God said, "let your line learn all there is to know," but the Church put to death anyone who thought differently, whether they were right or wrong.
Do not confuse the Lord's power and wishes with those of Men. It is unfortunate, but Man is a very close-minded creature. Just in terms of the bible, they were given three chances to shape up (two is you are Jewish): The covenant with Abraham, the Covenant with Moses, and the Covenant with Jesus... My father used to say, I'll give you to the count of three before you get a whuppin... so what comes now?
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Post by Darth Necrom on Feb 24, 2007 14:44:29 GMT -5
Exactly.
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Post by Mrs. Darth Vader on Feb 24, 2007 19:41:17 GMT -5
I do not care what title the said religion uses weather it call itself christian, Bhudhism, New age, Pagan or any other title. If the religion is used to hook you to the plow and produce wadgets so the capitalist at the top can have all the money and boss you around than I am against said religion if the religion is liberateing and those who practice it are for the overthrow of the capitalist class and its opiet servant organized religion than I am for that religion and those individuals who practice it.
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Post by Draco on Feb 24, 2007 20:56:13 GMT -5
The capitalist system is hebraic, but the question is then what is their better to replace a system with. As communism is inverted capitalism. You can be a slave to the communist state, instead of a slave to the capitalist state. Knowing many marxists, I have noticed not one of them ever really lived under a Stalin or Pol Pot. I don't want to fight to overthrow one opressor, just to get thrown into a gulag by the new ones. I do not care what title the said religion uses weather it call itself christian, Bhudhism, New age, Pagan or any other title. If the religion is used to hook you to the plow and produce wadgets so the capitalist at the top can have all the money and boss you around than I am against said religion if the religion is liberateing and those who practice it are for the overthrow of the capitalist class and its opiet servant organized religion than I am for that religion and those individuals who practice it.
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Post by Empress Palpatine on Feb 24, 2007 22:29:46 GMT -5
That depends on what kind of communist or socialist you are.
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Post by Darth Necrom on Feb 24, 2007 22:40:33 GMT -5
But add the human element into any governmental equation and it automatically is lacking. Humans are the weak points not the actual government designs.
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Post by Mrs. Darth Vader on Feb 24, 2007 22:51:29 GMT -5
But add the human element into any governmental equation and it automatically is lacking. Humans are the weak points not the actual government designs. I quoted you because this is an interesting point. There is much trueth in it. I still want to try communism instead of capitalism because I have lived forty five years under capitalism. Long enough to know I hate it. So to me it is better to take my chances on something else for a change. I am tired of the logjam. Things are so stagnant it would be nice to shake things up for once.
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Post by trine on Feb 25, 2007 0:15:26 GMT -5
But add the human element into any governmental equation and it automatically is lacking. Humans are the weak points not the actual government designs. Well, I couldn't say it better if I had years to think. Flawless, that has been the problem with every government system in history. Not a single one is bad, they all are goo just humans won't allow them to truely work. Oh, and I'm wondering why a 16 yr old noticed this first but to the rest of you; capitalism is a system of economy, not goverment. I don't believe you actually thought that just I kept seeing capitalism, communism, and socialism in the same sentences as government and just thought I'd let you know that a system of economy is different than a system of government. Oh, and you said Volrund that the lord helps those who help themselves. Well, why the heck do I need his help if I've already done it on my own?
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Post by Draco on Feb 25, 2007 0:22:25 GMT -5
What we have is a Plutocracy so the system of economy and the ruling tier is one. But add the human element into any governmental equation and it automatically is lacking. Humans are the weak points not the actual government designs. Well, I couldn't say it better if I had years to think. Flawless, that has been the problem with every government system in history. Not a single one is bad, they all are goo just humans won't allow them to truely work. Oh, and I'm wondering why a 16 yr old noticed this first but to the rest of you; capitalism is a system of economy, not goverment. I don't believe you actually thought that just I kept seeing capitalism, communism, and socialism in the same sentences as government and just thought I'd let you know that a system of economy is different than a system of government. Oh, and you said Volrund that the lord helps those who help themselves. Well, why the heck do I need his help if I've already done it on my own?
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Post by Darth Necrom on Feb 25, 2007 9:34:47 GMT -5
Very true. Their have been governments that have tried the capitalistic style of economy, but their governmental standards have been slightly... odd.
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Post by Volund Starfire on Feb 25, 2007 10:47:33 GMT -5
In reality since your jesus orders the death of the unbelievers in luke, they where doing his work. Old jesus says in the bible ask and ye shall receive, not pray for life and maybe get thrown a bone. The christian religion is the biggest proof that christianity is a fraud created by men to keep other men inline for their own interests. The whole bible is a lie created from older non-christian texts, the whole religion is a fraud. I will ask that, whether you agree with my beliefs or not, that you be respectful of them. I do not go around bad mouthing your beliefs and will ask that you do no bad mouth mine. We have a difference of opinion, that does not mean we must go into mud slinging and "my god is better than yours" discussions.
I respect the opinion you have about my system of beliefs. I have had this conversation with others on many other Jedi sites. Their claims were similiar to yours, but you must ask yourself an important question...
Is disrespecting the religious beliefs of another really the way a Jedi should act?
The early church was frought with murder, suspiscion, and other forms of what we call sin. But that was then, this is now. Can you show me proof in the past 50 years, or the past 100, where the church has done acts of unspeakable evil and claimed divine influence as its reasoning?
As Jedi, we are taught to hold our own beliefs, yet are also taught to respect all others until they do something to lose that respect. Respect does not just go to a person, but also to that persons ideas, thoughts, and beliefs. Should you disrespect even one of those, are you really respect the person anymore?
So, you see, I respect your opinion concerning the faith which I call my own. Can you respect me enough to also respect my beliefs in that religion?
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Post by Draco on Feb 25, 2007 23:25:16 GMT -5
Your whole religion is attack on all other religions literally. So that is a hypocritical card to pull. Why should I respect you? Your messiah tells you to kill me and my family. Your evil religion mass murdered millions of my ancestors and waged a long and bloody campaign of culture genocide against them. [ I will ask that, whether you agree with my beliefs or not, that you be respectful of them. I do not go around bad mouthing your beliefs and will ask that you do no bad mouth mine. We have a difference of opinion, that does not mean we must go into mud slinging and "my god is better than yours" discussions.
I respect the opinion you have about my system of beliefs. I have had this conversation with others on many other Jedi sites. Their claims were similiar to yours, but you must ask yourself an important question...
Is disrespecting the religious beliefs of another really the way a Jedi should act?
The early church was frought with murder, suspiscion, and other forms of what we call sin. But that was then, this is now. Can you show me proof in the past 50 years, or the past 100, where the church has done acts of unspeakable evil and claimed divine influence as its reasoning?
As Jedi, we are taught to hold our own beliefs, yet are also taught to respect all others until they do something to lose that respect. Respect does not just go to a person, but also to that persons ideas, thoughts, and beliefs. Should you disrespect even one of those, are you really respect the person anymore?
So, you see, I respect your opinion concerning the faith which I call my own. Can you respect me enough to also respect my beliefs in that religion?
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Post by Volund Starfire on Feb 26, 2007 0:00:14 GMT -5
Your whole religion is attack on all other religions literally. So that is a hypocritical card to pull. Why should I respect you? Your messiah tells you to kill me and my family. Your evil religion mass murdered millions of my ancestors and waged a long and bloody campaign of culture genocide against them. My religion is a religion of peace. I believe in the conceptf listed in the ten commandments, and spoke of by Jesus. I do not follow any official church or sect. Those are the ones which seek to kill and assimilate. My religion, in itself, speaks of peace. It is the interpretation by those who want power that use it as a weapon.
Calling me a hypocrit based on the interpretation by those whom I do not follow is also not right. I do not seek to kill any. I seek to preserve life, as all Jedi do. I seek to defend the innocent, no matter their beliefs. So, how is this hyopcritical?
As for why you should respect me... Well, you have a point. You are a free person who can make your own decisions. But what have I personally done to deserve your disrespect? To my knowledge, all that I asked is that you not attack my system of beliefs. No matter what your decision, though, I will still respect you.
You claim that "my messiah" has told me to kill you and your family, but you are wrong. My messiah has told me to kill nobody. As a matter of fact, the only thing he has told me is to comfort those who need comforted and to aid those who need help. This was in a dream. He did not put the fine print of killing any, let alone you and your family. In truth, I do not even know you or your family. Why would I wish you or they dead?
Ah, now I believe I understand where you are coming from. The past is the past. I cannot appologize for what happened, as I was not there. But I learned something a long time ago:
Those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it.
This is not just a pretty saying, but is the truth. In the early church, they persecuted those who had once persecuted them. The early Wiccan worshippers were once worshippers of the Roman nature dieties. As the Romans were those who persecuted the ancient Christians, the early Christians felt it right to hate and persecute the early Wiccans... This led to hatred, suffering, grief.
Now, I would ask you a question, would you see this circle of hatred continue with us? If so, then how are you any different than those of the early Christian church? The truth is, there would be little difference. You would hate my faith because of what it did to those of your faith in the past, for that faith did to the Christians in the past, and so on.
I ask that you let the past rest in the past. Enough hatred has erupted from religious intollerance, let us not allow it to spill over here.
We are both Jedi. Jedi are tollerant of others, no matter their beliefs. The only time a Jedi comes into conflict with a belief system is if it openly seeks evil upon the Will of the Force. The past of my faith did. As a penance, it was shattered and scattered. The Catholic Church has only a fraction of its power, and I am not even a Catholic, but a follower of another branch which believs in the utmost peace.
I ask for respect. If not for my religion, then at least for myself. Do not let this site, a place of peace and philosoph, be tarnished with hatred as so many others have become. This is all I ask. This is all I implore.
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Post by Draco on Feb 26, 2007 0:39:52 GMT -5
Yeah and jesus orders the death of all unbelievers, and states he did not come to bring peace but to bring a sword and turn mother against father and son against father.etc That's your psycho double speak religion
Hate is love War is Peace Freedom is Slavery
[quotevolund My religion is a religion of peace. I believe in the conceptf listed in the ten commandments, and spoke of by Jesus. I do not follow any official church or sect. Those are the ones which seek to kill and assimilate. My religion, in itself, speaks of peace. It is the interpretation by those who want power that use it as a weapon..[/quote]
The bible is the bible, and the commands of jesus to slay unbelievers are there for all to read.
Basically Iam judging your religion based on the fruits of it's actions, not on your words. By your fruits you shall known them. Given all the millions your religion has murdered in the name of love and peace, I doubt all the double speaking christian talk, about peace and love.
Your bible celebrates the mass murder and rape of millions of gentiles whole nations being swept away and enslaved. Peace and love.lol
[quotevolund Calling me a hypocrit based on the interpretation by those whom I do not follow is also not right. I do not seek to kill any. I seek to preserve life, as all Jedi do. I seek to defend the innocent, no matter their beliefs. So, how is this hyopcritical?.[/quote]
And that is the point your religion is a attack on all other religions and systems of belief.........but yet christians always think they are entitled to respect=hypocritical.
[quotevolund As for why you should respect me... Well, you have a point. You are a free person who can make your own decisions. But what have I personally done to deserve your disrespect? To my knowledge, all that I asked is that you not attack my system of beliefs. No matter what your decision, though, I will still respect you.[/quote]
Luke19:27 says different then what you claim.
[quotevolund You claim that "my messiah" has told me to kill you and your family, but you are wrong. My messiah has told me to kill nobody. As a matter of fact, the only thing he has told me is to comfort those who need comforted and to aid those who need help. This was in a dream. He did not put the fine print of killing any, let alone you and your family. In truth, I do not even know you or your family. Why would I wish you or they dead?.[/quote]
Yes and the ideology which caused the mass genocide of my ancestors is the christian religion which is still around.
[quote volund You claim Ah, now I believe I understand where you are coming from. The past is the past. I cannot appologize for what happened, as I was not there. But I learned something a long time ago.[/quote]
I agree I learned from the past, that is why christianity is evil and insane. It's whole past is genocide and jehova.
[quotevolund Those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it..[/quote]
The early christians where left alone by the Romans till they started to do things like cause riots, burn cities down, mob, attack and murder Pagan Priests and Priestess in board daylight. Today we would put such people in jail, the Romans used the form of legal system to deal with them.
Umm......"Wicca" was created by Gardner in the 50's.
[quotevolund Those This is not just a pretty saying, but is the truth. In the early church, they persecuted those who had once persecuted them. The early Wiccan worshippers were once worshippers of the Roman nature dieties. As the Romans were those who persecuted the ancient Christians, the early Christians felt it right to hate and persecute the early Wiccans... This led to hatred, suffering, grief...[/quote]
Nope your religion orders my death, and has when they had to the temporal power to do so killed millions. Your religion is based on hatred and intolerance....so it is common sense, self defense to oppose it. Your religion blasphemes and slanders my culture, Gods and ancestors.
The catholic is not the only branch with bloody fingers.
[quotevolund Now, I would ask you a question, would you see this circle of hatred continue with us? If so, then how are you any different than those of the early Christian church? The truth is, there would be little difference. You would hate my faith because of what it did to those of your faith in the past, for that faith did to the Christians in the past, and so on....[/quote]
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